Christy Cornell Nicholas, I'm glad you had good experinces with working your pits among your other dogs, but there are also hunters (hog) and cattlemen who say they avoid using pits because in their experimce the pits were just as likely to fight with the other dogs as they were the game. There are also some hog hunters who prefer to use pitbulls and American Bulldogs (pitbull type mix/cross) exclusively and claim they don't have problems, so it seems to be a bag of mixed results.

Nicholas Valentine shared Nova 106.9's photo.

April 20 at 6:35am

Nova 106.9 with SZandra Vveronica Bailon

"I am loved!"

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  Nicholas Valentine The title of this photo which has been lost in the share is ; STOCK TRAIN YOUR DOGS . It wasn't intended to be cutesy .

  April 20 at 5:20pm · Like · 1
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  Christy Cornell This dog isn't a pitbull. It is a Viszula. Verified by the owner's daughter. 
  
  With the funny angle of the dog's head in the photo, it could be mistaken for a pitbull mix (it's too tall and not muscular enough to be a full blooded pitbull ), but if you had a better angle on the photo, or were looking a a Viszula and a pitbull side by side, you could easily see the difference between the two.

  April 21 at 3:41am · Edited · Like · 2
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  Christy Cornell Smiles sheepishly. Ok. You outed me. I'm a nutter.  
  
  Stu Stu Mahaffey , maybe this is a case of mistaken identity, but if you have ever paid attention to my comments, you should know by now that I'm not a pitter. Just because I want explicit truth i...See More

  April 21 at 3:58am · Like · 1
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  Christy Cornell Lol! Sounds like with the recent pitter invasion we all are a little turned around.
   ...See More

  

  April 21 at 4:06am · Like · 1
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  Christy Cornell Yeah, Stu Mahaffey, I know exactly what you mean. It's only a pitbull if it saves a bus load of Mother Teresa's orphans. If it did something bad, it mysteriously becomes a lab mix.

  April 21 at 4:10am · Like · 3
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  Dennis Ballance Sr If it was a pit bull it would look like a tick hanging on the cows head

  April 21 at 4:31am · Like · 4
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  Nicholas Valentine The whole point of this photo is being missed in a discussion of breed - the point is people must take the trouble to stock train their dogs . If breed were the issue I could produce endless pictures of all types of working dogs including Pit Bulls posing with all sorts of livestock . We all know that photos prove nothing so who cares , but owners must train their dogs - and yes Pit Bulls can be trained to be safe with stock .

  April 21 at 4:41am · Like · 1
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  Christy Cornell Nicholas, with the way that stock are being ravaged by roaming dogs, I can understand your reasoning for wanting to post this photo, but the only people who MUST take the trouble to actually stock train their dogs are people whose dogs are going to be frequently around stock or those people who notice that their dogs seem to be reactive to seeing stock. Most others can simply discipline their dogs and train them enough so that their leashed dog will be under their control when encountering stock. 
  
  Most of these attacks on stock are by loose dogs. That is the biggest part of the problem and most of the severe attacks on 4 legged stock (non-poultry) are from pitbulls, bully type dogs, mastiffs, and guarding bred breeds, so to prevent those types of attacks, the types of dogs which commonly maul stock should NEVER be allowed to roam and must have secure containment to fit the dog's abilities to escape. 4 ' fences just won't do to adequately contain those types of dogs which are most likey to kill and severely injure stock. I don't think ANY dog should be allowed to roam off leash, so I'm all for stronger containment regulations for ALL dogs, but there are some breeds which need containment measures which should be suited to their likely hood of escaping and causing trouble.
  
  I have dogs and I have horses. My dogs are socialized with my horses, but the first step of that socialization was to be in control of my dogs in the first place and let them know that I would choose when they could go up to the stock. When I knew I had my dogs reasonably trained and under control I started allowing them to interact with my horses in controlled situations. After they progressed well with that, I allowed more and more time for them to be off leash (on my property) and interacting with the stock. After a while, they totally lost interest in interacting with my horses other than when we first arrive at the barn and there is sometimes a nose to nose greeting between my dogs and my horses. At this point, my dogs are so bored with the horses that they usually don't even bother with a greeting unless the horse can reach its nose over the stall close enough to get their attention. They usually just go find a good spot to rest when we go to the barn and don't bother with even looking the horse's way. They don't bother going into the stall or the field. I don't allow them in the ring when I working with the horses at home and I dont take them with me when I ride off property. 
  
  Would I encourage my dogs to do what the Viszula is doing as far as being in the middle of a herd of cows (or horses). Definitely not. Not because of the dog, but because of the unpredictability of a herd of cattle/horses. There is no need for most dogs to be conditioned to stock like the Viszula in the photo, unless that dog is a working stock dog or commonly goes along with horseback riders who own large tracts of land and have the ability to take their unleashed dogs with them when they ride on their own property.

  April 22 at 12:43am · Edited · Like
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  Mukta Begum Yes it's trained to be around cows , but a normal pitbull around the city off leash is going to attack, bark from my experience

  April 22 at 2:22am · Like
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  Nicholas Valentine Sorry Kris , but I am going to have to tell you that you are definitely wrong . I have run Pit Bulls with my pack of hounds for thirty years and when hunting all must be safe with all livestock as often they are running several miles away from me on their own for hours at a time . I have always found the Pit Bulls easier to keep steady than the hounds , and obviously they must be good with other dogs in this situation . All dogs with a hunting instinct will chase stock unless trained otherwise and the only dog that defeated me in this respect was a Lakeland Terrier , the Pits are usually very easy to train . I must also add that exercising 60 - 70 dogs at a time it's impossible to use a leash so all must respond to commands and be trustworthy .

  April 22 at 3:05am · Like
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  Nicholas Valentine Kris , once again you are wrong and you shouldn't make assumptions about people . If you like I am an " advocate " in that I advocate that I think that most people should not keep these types of dog , nor should rescues adopt them out and waste resources when the best contribution to animal welfare is the humane euthanasia of surplus animals . I also advocate that any argument be based on fact and informed opinion . The " Nutters " are doing great harm with their " it's all how you raise them " but it has to be said ther are nutters on both sides . Because I am not going to agree to something that I know is incorrect does not automatically make me one . As I have already stated I do NOT think people should have Pit Bulls as pets , I'm also dismayed by the horrendous abuse these dogs suffer , which I'm sure no normal person could possibly endorse . I now no longer have the Pits but that's due to encroaching old age and not because I ever ran into any trouble with them . What I do advocate is responsible ownership of all dogs which is what the original point of this post was about . And one last point Kris , when I have a different view point to someone else here on FB I do not drag it down to personal innuendo , I am prepared to make the case on what I know to be correct .

  April 22 at 4:19am · Edited · Like · 2
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  Dennis Ballance Sr I agree with alot of the points you both made but in my opinion pits can not be fully trused around any other living creature on the planet. I have read a few comments from pit owners that understand what they have and understand it can not be treated like other dogs and take risk precautions

  April 22 at 7:07am · Like · 1
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  Nicholas Valentine In general you are right Dennis , my advice is always never to leave these dogs together unattended , but having said that some are completely trustworthy - it's a case of knowing which is which , something that seems to be beyond the understanding of most people .

  April 22 at 7:44am · Like
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  Nicholas Valentine Yes Julia they were Pits from the ones Ed Reid imported in the 70s , They were legal then . They ran with the hounds , terriers and lurchers and on a weekend we used to go to the shows and run them in the dog racing . I bred a line that were quite well known but then the Dangerous Dogs Act came so I had them licensed , a condition of which was they were neutered so the line died out with the last one about ten years ago ( aged 15 ) . The most I had together at once was six and all completely safe with stock . I know that the idiots who get these dogs can't be relied on to control them properly which is why they shouldn't have them . There are no absolutes with dogs , to say that no Pit can be trusted is as silly as saying that none of them would ever hurt a fly .

  April 22 at 8:08am · Like · 1
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  Nicholas Valentine Thank you for listening Julia , I didn't really want to talk about myself but got drawn into it to prove a point .

  April 22 at 8:30am · Like · 1
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  Sarah Howard No pit can be trusted may be too black and white, but who wants the risk around families and communities. There is no way to tell which ones will snap.

  April 22 at 8:40am · Like · 2
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  Christy Cornell Nicholas, I'm glad you had good experinces with working your pits among your other dogs, but there are also hunters (hog) and cattlemen who say they avoid using pits because in their experimce the pits were just as likely to fight with the other dogs as they were the game. There are also some hog hunters who prefer to use pitbulls and American Bulldogs (pitbull type mix/cross) exclusively and claim they don't have problems, so it seems to be a bag of mixed results. 
  
  I agree with Julia, your story is interesting and I'd like to hear more about your experiences.
  
  I have some questions, so maybe you could address such things as whether your pits were spay/neutered, was there a gender which worked better, how many pits at a time of a single gender were working among your hounds and what was the quarry you pursued with the dog packs that contained the pitbulls? Were these hunts that used drags or did you actually hunt game? If you hunted game, how did the pits act when it was caught? Did you ever need a break stick? 
  
  I don't agree with everything you are saying, but you are making some good points. One thing I believe is that there are a lot of people who aren't capable of controlling pitbull dogs. What I notice is that many of the people who are actually capable enough and responsible enough to own a pitbull will choose a different breed and avoid pitbulls because they understand the amount of effort it takes to responsibly own that type of dog. There are some pitbulls which will never cause harm, but there are also some that will and will kill, and this occurs more in pitbulls than any other breed. 
  
  The recent death of the 2 month old baby is an example of a pitbull that took its owners by surprise with tragic results. That dog slept with the children and they raised other children with it without incident. The baby was 10 weeks old, so it had more than enough time to understand the baby was now a part of the family, plus they likely had it when at least one of their other children was a baby. The dog still took an opportunity to kill the child. This happens frequently with pitbulls and rarely with other breeds. Why? 
  
  Other breeds have their share of irresponsible owners. Retrievers killed zero people last year and pitbulls killed 27. There are more retrievers than pitbulls, so it can't be a matter of higher numbers of dogs. And all those killer pitbulls were pets. None were abused or fought. What made the difference on 27 fatalities for pitbulls and zero fatalities for retrievers?

  April 22 at 8:57am · Like · 1
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  Dennis Ballance Sr Nicholas Valentine I think we are dealing with a different pit than you had the ones here have been so interbred by people who have no clue how to breed or how to choose a dog with the traits you want to pass on. It is here if it will breed let it and make some cash no matter what the resulting traits are

  April 22 at 9:31am · Edited · Like
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  Nicholas Valentine Hi Christy , let me start by saying that of course I think the deaths and attacks are absolutely dreadful which is why , and I repeat , most people should not keep these dogs . To try and answer some of your questions ; the Pits I kept were nearly all bitches and they were not spayed until I had to do it by law . I only ever had one adult male at a time because mature males are not going to agree at all , but the bitches were never a problem . The most I had at one time was six adults . We hunted live quarry and the pits would eat a rabbit along with the hounds and we never gave it a thought and no , I never had to use a breaking stick . There is a background to all of this . When dealing with dogs in packs there is always the chance of a fight . As I love my hounds and dogs I wouldn't see them hurt so all dogs on the place are taught that fighting is not going to be tolerated right from when they are small puppies .It is something I am very particular about and will chastise anyone who so much as looks the wrong way at anyone else . This stands them in good stead for the rest of their lives . The same principle applies with the other animals because they must be safe in all circumstances . The most important single point here is that the dogs are submissive to their owner , I think the majority of trouble starts when the boundaries become unclear . I suspect that disaster occurs when people have failed to recognise a lack of respect on the part of the dog or taken appropriate action soon enough , which in the case of Pit Bulls should be euthanasia . This is why " fur mommies " are such a disaster with Pit Bulls , you can't love them into submission and as a " baby " the dog human relationship becomes confused . One last observation on dogs in general , dogs that have been abused are usually submissive , they don't bite or only in self defence . The nasty ones are those that have been spoilt .

  April 22 at 10:15am · Like · 2
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  Dennis Ballance Sr You hit the nail on the head fur mommies have no place in the world of pit bulls

  April 22 at 10:30am · Edited · Like · 1
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  Nicholas Valentine Dennis , there is obviously a problem with breeding . The dogs I had came from true fighting stock and as such we're not overly big or powerful looking , someone once described them as whippets with fat heads which I thought pretty good . There is a problem that the rather scrawny looking genuine pit dog doesn't match the image that idiots want to portray with their dog which they want to look and act tough , so they bred them larger and more aggressive . Dog breeding now is just about putting anything with anything for a fast buck like you say .

  April 22 at 10:36am · Like · 1
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  Dennis Ballance Sr Nicholas Valentine I used part of your reply to Christy on my timeline. The part about being fur mommies to pit bulls. I like the way you worded it. Imo that is one of the big problems we are having with dogs here in the Usa. The dogs were never shown ...See More

  April 22 at 8:14pm · Like
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  Nicholas Valentine Pleased you liked it Dennis . I feel I'm walking a tightrope here because I don't hate Pit Bulls , in fact I think they are remarkable animals in many ways . What I am against is the idiots who own them , the misinformation ( on both sides ) and the Pit Bull advocates lack of reality in dealing with the situation . Why Americans have such a problem euthanasing surplus dogs , especially vicious ones I have no idea . At least over here an attacking dog gets put down straight away . Keeping dogs alive in confinement is a cruelty in its self , also I fail to see how the " rescue angels " who confine these dogs and then allow them to fight and kill each other are any different to dog fighters . It makes no difference to the animal being ripped up wether the fight is deliberate or an " accident " , the pain is just the same . I get the feeling that the " angels " are fulfilling their own needs at the expense of the dogs .

  April 22 at 9:26pm · Like · 5
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  Dennis Ballance Sr I don't hate pit bulls I don't want to be around them I don't trust them and never will. Fur mommies and pit pulls are like matches in a gun powder plant you know the out come you just don't know when. I have one that has let me know three times what it plans to do to me. I am armed when in my yard now and my plans are different. Sad part the fur mommie thinks it is sweet and loving which it may be at home but when it meets strangers it is a visious dog. Not just me one other neighbor had a run in with same dog fur up on back growling in full attack mode.Someone wants to own a pit fine keep it home and under control

  April 22 at 9:53pm · Edited · Like
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  Madlyn Ferro Well I do hate pitts, and I've read and seen several article where the "fur mommy" was killed and eatened by their darling fur kids ...wonder if they had a change of heart when the attack started?

  Yesterday at 4:41am · Like · 1